S5E19 – Build a Profitable SaaS SEO Strategy: Leverage Customer Insights to Drive Sustainable Organic Growth with Sam Dunning

Want to build a profitable SaaS SEO strategy and leverage customer insights to drive sustainable organic growth? Are you unsure whether SEO is right for your business? In this episode of the Grow Your B2B SaaS Podcast, host Joran Hofman sits down with Sam Dunning, the founder of Breaking B2B, to explore the world of Search Engine Optimization (SEO). Sam shares his expert insights on why SEO might not be the best fit for every company, particularly in the B2B SaaS sector. He stresses the importance of not rushing into SEO if your company is under pressure to deliver quick results, as SEO is a long-term strategy that requires time, resources, and dedication.

What is SEO?

Sam explains SEO as a way to capture prospects searching for your product or service on Google. In an ideal scenario, about 5% of your target market is in buying mode at any given time. The goal of SEO is to target these prospects by appearing in the top organic (non-paid) search results, which can potentially convert them into leads, sign-ups, or booked calls.

The Importance of SEO Over Paid Ads

Sam highlights several advantages of SEO over paid media. One key point is the evergreen effect of SEO, where your content can continue to drive traffic to your site for months or even years. Unlike paid ads, which stop delivering results when you stop paying, SEO provides a sustainable flow of traffic. Additionally, SEO can help reduce reliance on paid media, which many tech-savvy audiences tend to ignore.

When to Consider SEO

Sam advises that SEO is not a one-size-fits-all solution. It’s not suitable for companies needing quick results, entering new markets, or lacking the resources to invest in it. However, if your company has established market demand and the resources to support an SEO strategy, it can be a valuable tool to increase organic traffic and build brand awareness.

Common SEO Mistakes in SaaS

One common mistake Sam discusses is the “traffic trap,” where companies focus on generating traffic at all costs by targeting top-of-funnel keywords. This approach often fails to convert traffic into leads or sales. Instead, Sam suggests focusing on bottom-of-funnel keywords with high buying intent. He also cautions against spending excessive time on technical SEO, especially for newer companies with limited content.

Crafting an Effective SEO Strategy for SaaS

Sam outlines a strategic approach to SEO for SaaS companies, starting with leveraging insights from sales calls to understand customer pain points and jobs to be done. He recommends creating a structured plan that includes identifying potential keywords, assessing search intent, and crafting high-quality content that addresses customer needs. This strategy should focus on the bottom-of-funnel keywords first, then work towards building topical authority.

Quick Wins in SEO

Sam shares some quick wins for companies looking to see results from SEO. Targeting competitor alternatives and specific how-to queries can yield faster results. He also emphasizes the importance of building backlinks and leveraging content partnerships to boost domain authority and search rankings.

Measuring SEO ROI

When it comes to measuring the success of SEO efforts, Sam discusses both leading and lagging indicators. Early signs of success include improved rankings, increased click-through rates, and longer session times. Ultimately, the goal is to see conversions in the form of sign-ups, demos, or leads.

Overcoming SEO Challenges

Sam acknowledges the challenges SaaS companies face in executing an SEO strategy. For larger organizations, the biggest hurdle is often the slow pace of content approval and publication. For startups, the challenge is balancing SEO with other marketing priorities and finding the resources to execute effectively.

The Future of SEO in the Age of AI

With the rise of AI, Sam notes that SEO strategies must evolve. Tech-savvy buyers may use AI tools for search, which changes the landscape of traditional search engine results. However, traditional SEO practices, like creating high-quality content and building backlinks, still hold value in this new environment.

Advice for SaaS Founders

Sam offers tailored advice for SaaS founders at different stages of growth. For those aiming to reach $10K MRR, leveraging the founder’s personal brand and network can be effective. For those targeting $10M ARR, building scalable systems and executing a multi-channel marketing strategy is crucial.

Conclusion

This episode provides valuable insights into the complex world of SEO for B2B SaaS companies. Sam Dunning emphasizes the importance of a strategic, informed approach to SEO, focusing on high-intention keywords, leveraging sales insights, and building a robust content strategy. With these tips, SaaS companies can navigate the challenges of SEO and harness its power for long-term growth.

Timestamp

• (0:48) – Episode Introduction: Meet Sam Dunning
• (1:21) – Guest Welcome: Sam’s Career Journey
• (1:32) – What is SEO? Explained for SaaS and B2B
• (2:30) – Importance of SEO vs. Paid Ads
• (3:36) – Gains of SEO: Evergreen Effect and Funnel Stages
• (4:11) – Long-term Gains: SEO vs. Paid Ads
• (4:24) – When to Use SEO: Good Fit for Companies
• (5:37) – Scenarios Where SEO is Not Ideal
• (6:47) – Market Demand and Resources for SEO
• (7:02) – Not for Everyone: Quick Results and Resources
• (7:18) – Channel Testing: Commitment to Quarters
• (7:30) – Common Mistakes in SEO: Traffic Trap
• (8:41) – Informational Keywords and AI Impact
• (10:00) – Focus on Bottom Funnel: Money Keywords
• (10:43) – Mistake: Focusing on Traffic Metrics
• (11:41) – Strategy: Start with Bottom of Funnel First
• (14:02) – SEO for SaaS: The Right Approach
• (15:08) – Leveraging Sales Insights for SEO
• (18:22) – Assessing Intent: Researching Keywords
• (20:05) – Quick Wins in SEO: Competitor Keywords
• (21:16) – Content Strategy: Landing Pages and Gaps
• (22:17) – FAQs for SEO: Addressing Objections
• (24:16) – SEO Optimization: Technical Basics
• (25:25) – Publishing Mindset: Speed over Perfection
• (26:35) – Link Building Strategies: Earned Links
• (28:08) – Podcasting for Backlinks and Audience
• (29:17) – Content Clusters: Topic Authority Debate
• (30:48) – Building Backlinks: Strategies for SaaS
• (34:37) – Measuring ROI in SEO: Leading Indicators
• (36:08) – Conversion Points: Demos and Sign-ups
• (37:10) – SEO Challenges: Publishing Speed and Resources
• (39:34) – AI and SEO: Future Implications
• (41:50) – Advice for SaaS Founders: Growing to 10K MRR
• (44:23) – Scaling to 10M ARR: Systems and Channels

Transcription

[00:00:00.000] – Sam Dunning

I don’t think every company is a good fit for SEO, especially in the B2B SaaS world. So there’s a number of situations where SEO is not a smart move. One might be you’re under a ton of pressure, VCs, whoever’s funding a company, PE companies, whatever, to get results super fast. Seo is not smart. If you can’t actually dedicate the time, cash, or resource to make it a safe bet, instead, you might be better off initially growing through, I don’t know, your existing network, your founder’s network, maybe posting on LinkedIn or something else. You speak to an SEO team and you’ll ask them, How long does it take to get results from SEO? And then you’ll hear the usual, either it depends or 6 to 12 months as a blanket generic response. But often with this stuff, you can see impact within 90 days of publishing a page.

[00:00:48.940] – Joran

In today’s episode, we’re going to talk about SEO. My guest is Sam Dunning. Sam is the founder of Breaking B2B, a digital agency which It involves B2B companies with SEO and web design to drive revenue. Next to this, he runs the Breaking B2B podcast, has a daily newsletter, and puts out a lot of content regarding SEO and digital marketing. Sam started his career in sales, moved over to marketing at one point, so I guess that is where the revenue focus come from. But let’s find out. Welcome to the show, Sam.

[00:01:21.090] – Sam Dunning

Hey, thanks for having me on. Looking forward to the conversation.

[00:01:24.260] – Joran

Cool. We’re just going to dive right in. We’re going to talk about SEO today. How would you explain SEO to somebody?

[00:01:32.170] – Sam Dunning

Search engine optimization, I guess in its simplest term for folks in the SaaS and B2B SaaS space is trying to capture a prospect that’s searching for what you do or your offer or your product or your service on Google. In an ideal world, we know that at any given time, roughly 5 % of our target market are in buying mode and the other 95 % aren’t. So if we can target those prospects that need the offer are searching for it or searching for the category or the solution or comparing it to alternative solutions or other things, and we can get in front of them on Google by being in the nonpaid, the organic top results, then we have a chance to, if they land on our page to convert them into a sign up lead, a demo or a booked call. That’s the main focus of SEO, getting the organic juicy listings right now and ramping up organic non-paid traffic and potential leads.

[00:02:30.470] – Joran

But you can rank number one just by paying, right? So what is the actual importance of doing SEO?

[00:02:36.830] – Sam Dunning

There’s a few gains to it, really, I suppose. Is one, if you want to reduce your reliance on paid media, be that Google paid search, Google Ads, be that review paid listing sites or view that elsewhere. I suppose the other thing is, especially if you’re dealing with a tech savvy audience, a lot of folks know what a sponsored ad is on Google and will simply ignore I mean, I’m biased or I’m going to ignore it, but I know a lot of marketers, especially in the tech place, place more importance on the organic top ranking sites. The other is the evergreen effect. As a rough example, when you search for something on YouTube, let’s say I wanted to learn about SaaS marketing. I might see videos that are a couple of weeks old, but at the same time I might see videos that are three, four, five years old. So that’s the compounding effect. Just like searching for a video on YouTube, searching for something on SEO, your rankings can last for months, years or longer, meaning that they can drive a sustainable flow of traffic rather than having to pay for each and every click.

[00:03:36.270] – Sam Dunning

You can build up that reputation, you can build up that organic traffic, and you can attack with SEO, just like paid media, you can attack different stages of the funnel. So folks that are maybe at the informative and educational stage, trying to learn around your industry, folks that are maybe around the mid-stage, maybe looking for checklists, examples, templates, or folks that are right at that bottom funnel stage, almost ready to take a sign up or take a demo where they’re looking directly for the author. Of course, you’re not paying for each click and you’re improving your mind share, potential traffic and potential leads. So that’s a few wins.

[00:04:11.470] – Joran

Nice. In the end, if you stop putting money into paid ads, things will stop. This is the real long term gain you get out of it. When should a company think about doing something regarding SEO?

[00:04:24.300] – Sam Dunning

Good question. I guess I’m a little bit different to some SEOs in the sense that I don’t think every company is a good fit for SEO, especially in the B2B SaaS world. So there’s a number of situations where SEO is not a smart move. One might be you’re under a ton of pressure, VCs, whoever’s funding a company, PE companies, whatever, to get results super fast. So they’ve said, look, we need to get X amount of leads, sign up demos by the next quarter. In that case, your cash or resources is probably not best spent by SEO, just because by the time you publish the content, they’ve probably expected the leads. So you’d be way better off investing your time into paid media, the ads, maybe even outbound sales or similar. Another situation is if you’re in a new category or new market, your offer is not well known, it’s not in a mature sector. So people aren’t actually searching for it directly on Google. So you’re not going to be able to capture leads. In that situation, I’d encourage you to actually work out where your dream clients are hanging out, and in that case, educate them around the problem you solve, the value you bring and bring your offer and your category to a known state, that would be way better off.

[00:05:37.790] – Sam Dunning

Because if folks don’t know about your offer, they’re not going to search for it on Google. So SEO is not a good bet of your time. And the other thing is if you don’t have a resource to make it happen, right? If you’re bootstrapped company, maybe you have limited cash, limited resource, limited staff or headcount, then unless there is a quick win with SEO, which sometimes there is, SEO is If you’re not smart, if you can’t actually dedicate the time, cash, or resource to make it a safe bet, instead, you might be better off initially growing through, I don’t know, your existing network, your founder’s network, maybe posting on LinkedIn or something else. Let’s pretend none of those are the case. We’re in a market where we do have active demand. We have folks searching for our offer, or they’re searching for the problem we solve, or they’re comparing us to alternative vendors. And we have either cash to hire a contractor or a team, or we have some resource in to build out the content engine, do any web dev we need and similar. Then SEO is probably a smart move to start doing all those good things we talked about earlier, ramping up organic traffic, building our mind share and filling the funnel with some opportunities.

[00:06:47.550] – Joran

I like that you say that it’s not for everybody because normally people say you have to do SEO or you have to do something right, but in the end, it’s not for everybody as you mentioned. If you want to have quick results, industry is not well known or you don’t simply have the resources.

[00:07:02.230] – Sam Dunning

Yeah, that’s it. That’s probably the same for most channels in SaaS marketing or B2B marketing, right? To give it a good test, which in B2B marketing, we’re not talking weeks, we’re talking quarters, And you have to be sensible about it, otherwise it’s probably going to flop.

[00:07:18.290] – Joran

I’m going to ask a couple of follow-up questions regarding what you said. But first, I want to ask about the common mistakes just to make more fun. What are some of the common mistakes you see, maybe especially SaaS companies make doing SEO?

[00:07:30.600] – Sam Dunning

There’s loads. The biggest one is falling into what I call the traffic trap. Going for a traffic at all costs approach to SEO and hitting the top of funnel hard because you think that getting more traffic to your website is going to result in revenue. Before revenue, we need a conversion. We need either a signup, demo booked, or sales call booked, or maybe early in the stage, a lead magnet downloaded or a webinar signup, whatever that conversion point is. Now, the issue is if you We’re focused purely on the top funnel, i. E. Informational-based keywords, educational-based keywords, and very simple terms that could be things like what is a KPI or what is a CRM or how to build a website. The problem with that is a lot of those super light informational-based terms are being wiped out by AI. So for example, when you search some of these simple information terms on Google, you’ll see above the fold AI Overviews answering those straight away. So it almost removes the standard need for someone to click through to your website and go to your article, your landing And the second thing is, even if your website did rank well, someone would probably just search something like what is or how to with a very simple question, land on your website, get the info they need and bounce.

[00:08:41.930] – Sam Dunning

At very best, they might download a lead I’ll check out some more of your content like your YouTube or your podcast. So instead, I encourage folks to flip that on its head and start with the bottom of the funnel first, i. E. Focusing on money keywords, what is a prospect most to search when they need our offer now. In the SaaS world, that’s usually things like best category software or best category tools or best category platform, competitor alternatives, competitor pricing or competitor reviews, competitor one versus competitor Compared to to software for use case or software for niche user. That stuff is much more likely to result in a demo, a sign up or a lead compared to going for top funnel. Now, top funnel information content does have its place when you make it more crisp and specific and utilize prospects pain points that often gets raised on sales calls or utilizing their main jobs to be done using that framework, it can work. It’s also good for building something called topical authority to help rank your landing pages for your bottom of funnel or mid-funnel terms. That’s quite a big mistake, going too heavy on traffic at all costs, whereas bottom of funnel searches tend to have less traffic, but a lot higher buying intent.

[00:10:00.060] – Sam Dunning

Is there more likely to result in a sales qualified lead or marketing qualified lead. That’s probably the first one I’d say, but I’m happy to dive into more.

[00:10:07.700] – Joran

I’m unhappy to say that I fall in this trap as well. We’re now deleting a lot of our content, which is basically what you mentioned, just focusing on a lot of topo-funnel keywords that we’re now actually not doing anything with them and at one point removing them because it didn’t actually help us to convert and it wasn’t really doing any good for us. Unhappy to say that we fall into this trap as well. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think people do it because when you go to any SEO tool, you see those keywords and those search terms have a lot of traffic. So you think like, Oh, I need to capture that.

[00:10:43.530] – Sam Dunning

Yeah, exactly. It is a difficult one, especially if, I suppose, you’re newer to SEO, or maybe someone’s tuning in and there may be a marketer at a SaaS company, but they’ve got 90 plus tasks they have to do each week. So SEO is just a small piece of the puzzle of all the other activities they’re managing. So I can understand, right? You jump into a tool like HRS or SEMrush, look up some industry-relevant keywords, and you see something that’s maybe low difficulty but high traffic, but it’s an information of what is how to keyword you think that might be easy to rank for. I’ll get some AI assistance to build out the article, publish it to the website, get a bit of traffic, but it doesn’t really result in a lot on the back-end in terms of leads, signups or revenue. So it is an easy trap to fall into. Now, there is a play for top funnel SEO still, in my opinion, million, but it’s more specific, longer tail. It can actually be a play for folks that are maybe in a newer category where there isn’t a ton of people searching directly for your offer, but you understand their job to be done or their problem.

[00:11:41.920] – Sam Dunning

They might have an incumbent way of getting something done. It might be something like how to build a finance projection within Google Sheets or how to build a LinkedIn content calendar within Google Sheets or within Microsoft Excel. You know they’re facing this specific problem with this specific platform. This is how they’re getting the job done today, but they just don’t know that your offer exists. So in that case, you could say, We know you’re facing this problem with Google Sheets and building out this calendar or building out this finance planner. This is one way you could get the job done. Or in the article, you could save yourself 10 hours a week. You could use our SaaS. You could sign up for free. It’s going to save you this time, this pain, and get a free trial. Those jobs to be done, specific articles could work at the top funnel. Another mistake, especially for SaaS companies, is falling into the mindset that you need to waste loads of time on technical SEO. That’s why I believe a lot of technical SEO is BS, especially for newer SaaS companies. Saas companies are super guilty of having really thin content websites, especially when they start out, which makes sense because there’s probably a million jobs to do.

[00:12:44.310] – Sam Dunning

So usually you’ll see a SaaS website, it might be like home page, products, features, results, book a demo, like five to seven pages, roughly, right? And if you have five to seven pages, technical SEO should be at the bottom of your list. Yet there’s still some agencies that you hire and they’ll spend weeks or months doing these random technical audits. And it’s completely pointless. Your time is far better spent understanding exactly what in-market prospects search for when they need your offer, when they have problems you solve, when they compare you to alternatives. And looking to exhaust those bottom of funnel keywords and build best-in-class content that ranks for that, and also looking to do some link building to supplement any of those more competitive keywords and topics to rank, having a mindset of publishing at scale, because a lot of your That is going to be far beyond you. Whereas if you’re messing around with things like image alt tags and trying to get 100 score on page speed, that’s not going to help you make it. That’s another huge mistake I see.

[00:13:41.460] – Joran

We’re going to turn it around because we’re going to talk about, I guess, how can people do it in the right way. My question would be, how would you do SEO for a SaaS company? You already mentioned start with BOP first, money keywords, link building, mindset to produce content as skill. But maybe take us from step one. If you now can do the SEO for SaaS company, how would you do it?

[00:14:02.790] – Sam Dunning

Sure thing. One of the first things is taking a step back out of an SEO mindset into good B2B in SaaS marketing. If you don’t know it yet, if you’re the founder, you probably know all this info because you’re probably running sales calls if you’re early stage, if you’re later stage, you won’t be. I would actually on this step one exercise involve maybe your marketing leader and your sales leader, or if it’s just you, your founder, pull previous sales calls, fathom recordings or gong recordings, whatever you use, because you’re going to want to leverage insights from customer calls to know dream clients, problems, impact of problems, their goals, their jobs to be done, and more. So the easiest way of doing step one is make a Google Sheet or an Excel sheet and fire up four main columns. First column is what does everyone refer to your offer to? What are all the ways of wording your offer? So in the calendar scheduling space that I often use, it could be calendar scheduling software, scheduling tools, scheduling platform, calendar booking tools, list what your offer can be referred to in column one. Column two, what are the main money niches that you serve?

[00:15:08.870] – Sam Dunning

What are the industries you serve best? But not just any industry. Ideally, ones that have historically bought well from you, ones that have that juicy problem you solve, ones that are motivated to solve it, ones that can easily afford your offer, that have no problem investing cash in it. It’s never a concern over money. They know it’s useful, they’ll spend the cash. The third is main competitors. What are the competitors that always come up on sales calls, almost to an annoying point where you’re like, for God’s sake, it’s them again. List all those. In the calendar scheduling world as an example, it’s probably Calendly, Chilly Piper, HubSpot, Meetings, Revenue Hero. Those are a few that come to mind. There’s a bunch of others, too. And then the column four would be jobs to be done. So what are your dream clients struggling moments? What are the problems they face? What are the ways they might get it before knowing a solution like yours exists? Maybe it’s Google Sheets, stuff like that. And then you can label out those problems that someone might be doing those how-to-based searches that are longer tail, more crisp and specific to their world.

[00:16:11.740] – Sam Dunning

So that’s what I start with. The whole reason of doing this exercise is so you can build out bottom of funnel and some mid-funnel and top-funnel keywords that your dream clients would search for and make some long-tail variants of those. If we fling it back to the calendar scheduling world, a really useful term to rank for would be something like best calendar scheduling software. Issue with that is it’s really competitive and you’ve probably got the giants like Calendly, Chilly Piper, Revenue Hero Hub, spot all ranking top four or five. As a new website or SaaS, you’re not just going to rank for that. That’s probably something you’re going to want to build a really useful piece of content for, but it’s going to be something you slowly chip away at. In the meantime, you probably want to look at longer tail keywords like your offer plus industry, i. E. Best calendar scheduling tools for sales teams or HR teams or FinTech or whatever those industries you serve best. Moving on to the competitors. Going for competitor-based keywords can be another quick win because quite often those have low search volume but high sales intent. So that’s keywords like competitor alternatives like Calendly alternatives or Chilly Piper alternatives or Chilly Piper pricing or Chilly Piper reviews, or it could be competitor one versus competitor two.

[00:17:25.890] – Sam Dunning

And then you position yourself as a third offer. It’s like Hubs for meetings versus Calendly a new position yourself as the new solution they might not have been aware of, how you stand out, your differentiators in the marketplace, and why they should consider choosing you. So that’s the third one. And the last one for exhausting that list is the other jobs to be done. So that could be like how to and then specific problem that your prospects face and raise on sales calls or how to and then whatever they’re trying to do in the incumbent solution. That’s a good starting point. Then once you’ve made some potential longtail queries, long tail keywords, you can bash those through Hrefs or Semrush. Check they’ve got a little bit of search volume, but don’t be put off if they are low search volume, because usually the lower search volume, the higher buying intent, and so more likely to drive a potential lead. That’s the first thing you want to do. Then once you’ve exhausted that, then you can start looking what ranks, which is called assessing the intent. And all that means really is the simplest way of doing that is find your keyword.

[00:18:22.330] – Sam Dunning

So let’s say we were trying to rank for Chilly Piper alternatives. We type that into Google, we look at the top three organic nonpaid listings, and they’re probably listical pages. We reviewed the top 10 Chilly Piper alternatives for 2025. And that’s usually what that page could be. But on the flip side, it could be a landing page, it could be a service page, it could be a different how to article. How to would probably be more for a what is question or how to, informational-based query. But this is more bottom funnel. So yeah, it’s an alternative listicle. And usually to rank for that, you want to review how that page is structured and look for gaps in their page. So things like if they’ve done a top 10 list, I don’t want to mess about and update my page in six months. So I try and blow out the water. I’d probably do a top 20 list. I’d probably position my offer as number one. But instead of talking about how great we are and how cool we are, let’s leverage insights from sales schools, maybe A comparison table of us against the top competitor, where we stand out, share our differentiators, definitely weave in our product.

[00:19:22.720] – Sam Dunning

So GIFs or screenshots of that aha moment of where our product clicks into play and problems it solves. Weave in some customer quotes, testimonials, et cetera, and then a clear call to action and look for any gaps in the current page of what we can double down on. That’s the first step one and step two.

[00:19:41.110] – Joran

This one is going to take a bit of time for people to do, right? Because in the end, they need to get first the sales goals, they need to record them. I guess there’s definitely step number one. Then they can create the overview. From there, they can start running into the keyword research. What I was planning to ask, would you have some quick wins in here? But you already mentioned it, the competitor generatives because everybody’s looking for a quick win, right? Any others we can find in here?

[00:20:05.750] – Sam Dunning

Yeah, exactly. You’ll often hear, and I’ve been guilty in the past, you speak to an SEO team and you’ll ask them, how long does it take to get results from SEO? And then you’ll hear the usual So it depends or 6-12 months as a blanket generic response. But often with this stuff, you can see impact within 90 days of publishing a page. Like you said, that could be the competitor alternative or competitor pricing or You’re competitive one versus competitive two, and then you position yourself as a third offer. Some of those jobs to be done, specific and crisp how-to keywords you could look to get ranking as well. And then maybe even some of those offer plus industry you serve, best tool for industry or best software for a specific industry. Those ones, you can get ranking probably quicker than you expected, can often be a reasonably quick win. But I suppose the thing to mention is, yeah, when you’re doing your research Search when you’ve made your exhaustive list of keywords, really take the time to review what’s ranking well. Look for gaps, look for how you can improve the offer. I talked about an article page, but it could be what’s Google’s favoring, what’s ranking well in the listing results page now is landing pages.

[00:21:16.100] – Sam Dunning

And quite often landing pages are super thin on content. They use a problem, agitation solution framework. You might be facing this problem. This is the impact and here’s our solution. But it’s quite easy to make a better landing page. Leverage your insights from customer Tools. We know you’re facing this problem. This is the impact of not fixing it. Maybe embed a YouTube video on that specific topic with a how-to rundown or whatever it may be. Youtube videos tend to help pages rank a bit better and also increase session time and engagement. Maybe you weave in your process, you weave in some more screenshots, gifs, or rather than videos. Maybe at the bottom, you have an FAQ section. Companies are really guilty of putting simple FAQs like, what is offer? How does it work? All that really basic stuff. Tests of weaving in the really difficult questions you got on sales calls, like based on that offer, the landing page is four. Why should I trust you over a competitor one? What’s your refund policy? How long does it take to get ramped up? Why do I get an account manager? Why should I trust you?

[00:22:17.800] – Sam Dunning

Those are difficult questions to get on sales calls. The reason those FAQs work so well is Google likes them because they appeal to their EEAT framework, experience, expertise, authority, trust. Prospects like them because it handles objections before they need raise on a sales call. It also helps your sales team because it speeds up sales cycles because you’ve already answered a lot of the questions you’re going to get on a sales call. It’s good for SEO as well as a bit of enablement as well. Those are a few quick wins.

[00:22:43.160] – Joran

I love that you keep referring back to sales insights because in the end, you’re not making things up. When putting things on the website, you leverage the insights you have from the sales call, so you’re already answering the questions which are going to come up anyway.

[00:22:55.960] – Sam Dunning

Exactly. Everything should be a feedback loop from what you hear from the market. Otherwise, probably the worst thing you can do in SEO is building maybe a really detailed page that maybe ranks, but it doesn’t resonate with your market. So prospect lands on it and maybe you’ve leaned too heavily on AI to help generate the page. They’ve landed on your article that’s ranked as one, but then they read words like, we’re going to turbocharge your revenues with our all in one, all singing, dancing revenue platform with 360 degree integrations. And then you’re like, what the heck does that even mean? It sounds like it was written by a robot and you just bounce off and go into the next result. So I think it’s really important to understand how your customers talk, problems they’re facing, jobs they want to get done and their goals, as well as doing SEO best practices.

[00:23:38.630] – Joran

Are you struggling to find people and companies which have access to your ideal customer profile? At Realit, we just launched the second side of the marketplace, which allows you to search, filter, and contact B2B SaaS affiliates, which have access to the audience you’re looking for. We do this by leveraging first-party data sources. Want to learn more? Go to getreditus. Com. There Because if we’re turning around, if you would recommend people, how should they optimize their SaaS website for SEO, you mentioned a lot of jobs to be done. That’s a framework people can use to show, I guess, how you get the job done. Leverage Client Insights. Any other things they should be doing?

[00:24:16.390] – Sam Dunning

You probably heard me at the start of this conversation. I said a lot of technical SEO is BS, but there is basics that you want to do. Let’s go back to our example earlier. We were talking about we want to rank for a calendar scheduling software as one of our longer term keywords. It’s going to be a slow chipper way to get against the competitors. So in that case, we want to make sure our meta-title and descriptions got that keyword in. So we reviewed the top calendar scheduling software of 2025. Our URL would need that in. So it’d be yourdomain. Com/calendar-scheduling-software. We’d want that within our H1, so our heading tag in the hero area of our page. So again, we reviewed the top 25 Canada Scheduling Softwares of 2025. You may want some internal links within your page linking us to maybe some relevant articles on the topic. And likewise, those articles linking back to that page. It makes it nice and easy for Google to crawl and build up some topical authority on your particular page. Aside from URL, metadata, H1, and another, you only have one H1 per page, and another heading tag to split up the content nicely.

[00:25:25.750] – Sam Dunning

Make sure the page is easy to read on mobile and PC, and it’s easy to navigate, and you’re weaving screenshots and examples of your product to position your product as a painkiller and relevant CTAs. That’s probably the main thing I’d say on technical. Yes, you want your page to have a decent load speed and you want your UI to be nice to navigate in your UX. But apart from that, you’re better off having a mindset of let’s exhaust these bottom of funnel, mid-funnel keywords, and let’s have a mindset of publishing at speed. Because if you’re a newer SaaS or if you’ve got giant competitors in your market, the main way that you can overtake giants in your industry with SEO to get better traffic, more inbound from organic search is to publish at speed because the big competitors, they move so slow. Mid-market enterprise organizations, they can take weeks and months to get keywords signed off, another few months to get the content approved just in the Google Docs, then to actually get the design team to design the page, then the web team to publish it, legal to sign it off. You can It literally go six to seven months I’ve seen it in enterprise orgs before a page get published.

[00:26:35.250] – Sam Dunning

Whereas as a scrappy startup or a smaller company, you can get this done in a week. You can literally spend a couple of days to do all those exercises I’ve just outlined. And then if you If you agree something that’s reasonable for your team, like we’re going to hit these topics per week and we can do a cadence of eight new pages per month, you’re going to slowly chip away at these companies. So that’s one of the best ways to do it. And then I suppose the only other thing I’ve left out is track links. To rank for those more competitive keywords, you’re going to need to build some links to those pages. One of the easiest ways to earn links, if you’ve got some reputation in the sector, is leveraging, ideally, your founder. If you’ve got a founder or a marketing leader or a revenue leader that’s done quite a lot of PR in the past or appeared on podcasts or done interviews, one of the simplest ways to earn some nice links is cut and paste their LinkedIn in profile URL into Semrush or Ahrefs, click the Backlinks tab, look for all the pages that have linked to them in the past.

[00:27:37.840] – Sam Dunning

If they’ve linked to the LinkedIn bio, find out whoever the author was. Make sure you find websites that are relevant to your niche, so not just random sites that’s relevant to your industry, and then just reach out to the author of those articles and say, Thanks for featuring my exec or my founder in your page or your article recently. Can you swap this to swap this LinkedIn link to one of these pages and keywords we’re focusing on with the dofollow link? And most of them say yes. It’s quite a nice easy win on backlinks. But there’s a few other strategies I can share as well.

[00:28:08.040] – Joran

Nice. I love this one. I never heard of it. I actually think now I made a mistake because at one point, I called myself Flipflop here on LinkedIn, so that was my URL. I might just have to add keywords into my LinkedIn slug. Now I think it’s like B2B SaaS growth. It doesn’t have my name in there. If I ever change it again to say you’re an off-band, then I’m screwed because all the backlinks won’t work anymore.

[00:28:33.350] – Sam Dunning

Well, it’s not so much that as well. It’s more that sometimes these publishers, if you’re found, you run your company, but let’s pretend you’re in a company that had an exec team, and let’s say one of the marketing leaders appeared in an article, but they just linked to the LinkedIn URL instead of linking to one of your keywords or focus pages. So you could just say to them, look, can you add this link back to this page because we’re focusing on it? And it gives you a free link as well. But you’re right, LinkedIn pages can rank in Google search as well. So it’s nice if you can get an optimized URL for your LinkedIn page.

[00:29:05.310] – Joran

Just make sure you pick the right keywords. You mentioned one thing as well, publish at speed. I heard you talking about mix. Would you recommend people using content clusters, topic clusters when they start doing SEO?

[00:29:17.760] – Sam Dunning

It’s a bit of a debate, isn’t it? Some SEOs say that topical authority is a big thing. Others say it doesn’t really matter. I’m probably somewhere in the middle. I think that a lot of those bottom of on the money keywords I’ve mentioned, you don’t necessarily need to build clusters for, especially terms like competitor alternatives, competitor pricing, competitor one versus competitor two. They don’t need topic clusters. You can just build the pages, build them out, or exhaust all of them because there’s probably only so many that you can do and get those rock and rolling so they can start ranking as quickly as possible. If you’re trying to rank for maybe the detailed landing page or listicle page, it’s quite competitive, so maybe it’s best calendar scheduling software, and then you’re trying to build some authority around So maybe as a result, you build five, six, seven articles that supplement that, like what to consider before investing in Canada Scheduling software, or how can I tell if calendar scheduling is right for me or whatever it may be that’s actually useful and relevant around that topic. And then those five to seven articles or however many we’ve out then all internally link to this main landing page or this main topic page.

[00:30:24.760] – Sam Dunning

And it gives it a bit of a boost around that. So that is one play that seems to still work.

[00:30:29.660] – Joran

Would A lot of content people know what they need to write. Now they know exactly how they need to write with these tips. Building backlinks, correct me if I’m wrong, is always the biggest challenge SaaS companies have where they don’t know how to actually build them. So every Changing the LinkedIn profile is definitely one. Any other tips?

[00:30:48.640] – Sam Dunning

Oh, yeah, there’s plenty. I’ll give you two more quick wins with backlinks. So again, this is going to be useful if you’ve got competitive pages and keywords that you want to rank. There’s probably giants taking up the real estate at the moment on Google. So one is doing what we’re doing now. Podcasting is great. It’s been really useful for my company, Breaking B2B. One of my favorite tips is you just leverage a podcast search engine. So there’s a good one called ListenNotes, listennotes. Com. All you do is go to that website, type in the industry that you serve, in my case, SaaS marketing, B2B marketing. In someone else’s case, your audience might be Fintech, accounting, legal, whatever. Type in that. Straight away, you’ll get a list of all the podcast shows in that niche. You can filter it to the top listened or the top downloaded episodes or podcast rather. And the beauty of that is you can see the top 10%, 5%, 2%, etc. Shows and the host of each one. So make a list of those, maybe just export them all to a Google Sheet and make a habit of reaching out to a couple of those, five of those, let’s say, a week.

[00:31:52.490] – Sam Dunning

I do it through LinkedIn and do simple stuff that helps me stand out from the rest of the outreach they’ll get. If I’m a big fan of super short outreach messages, so I probably did something a bit similar to yourself, actually. So I just find the show, find the host, find them on LinkedIn, send them a personalized request. Hey, Jess, had an unusual idea for your podcast. Are you against the conversation? Most people read that and think, What the hell is Sam on about? They’ll accept the request and be like, Sam, what are you talking about? And I’ll send them a Loom video or go on to their podcast page, website, or I’ll say, Great work on your show and enjoyed the recent episode on XYZ. I’ve actually usually invited on similar shows to talk about this topic or talk about this topic. Would you be open to discussing having me on? You get quite a good hit rate from that because not many people bother to do the Loom. And then, yeah, do the episode on their show, make it a useful, valuable episode. But then when they publish it to the article page on their site, ask for a link back to one of your focus keywords, and you get a double hit one.

[00:32:53.830] – Sam Dunning

You get their audience by being on a show, potential leads there, and you get a backlink. That’s really And my last recommendation is a partnership play, which is probably quite supplementary to your business. Just find companies, find founders, find marketing leaders, whoever you tend to target, that go after the same ICP, the same dream clients as you, but are not direct competitors. In my case, there’s a LinkedIn ads agency called Impactable that Justin Rho runs. We’ve been friends for a long time. Some time ago, I reached out to him on LinkedIn and said, look, I’ve got a bit of a strange idea I think we could create some content together and ramp up each other’s web traffic and drive some leads each other’s way. It was like, Sounds good. What can we do? Initially, I created a guest article on his website that was useful to his audience and asked for a backlink to my site in return to one of our focus keywords. Then From there, we started doing some podcasts together, and now we’re a referral partners. We send work each other’s way. It’s a really good way to not just get some SEOOs from a backlink, but also build up business relationships and send work each other’s way.

[00:33:58.100] – Sam Dunning

Yeah.

[00:33:58.490] – Joran

In this case, it starts small, and in the end, it went all the way to a referral partnership, which is nice. You’re not asking a big thing at the beginning. It takes the way into it.

[00:34:07.660] – Sam Dunning

Always start small.

[00:34:09.560] – Joran

One thing I like as well, which you said is with the Loom video, pitching your sofa a podcast, I now get maybe one or two requests per day for people to come onto the podcast, but they’re all super automated. You can clearly see when you open them up, I get almost two pages of why somebody should come onto the podcast and that they listen to my previous episode But you know it’s AI-generated, so standing out by doing something personal on LinkedIn, Zoom, is already helping a lot.

[00:34:37.890] – Sam Dunning

Big time. I’m the same, man. Those podcast pictures are pain. They’re probably some of the worst outreach I get. Literally two-page emails, and I open it, I just hit and delete. So I think you’re right. It takes a bit more effort, but it seems to work.

[00:34:50.490] – Joran

Yeah, hit rate is going to be a lot bigger. When we do all these things, when we actually start doing SEO the proper way, we want to see results and have it clearly like you’re doing it for revenue. How do you measure the ROI of SEO?

[00:35:06.360] – Sam Dunning

There’s a few indicators, metrics that you can look at, leading indicators that your SEO is working early signs of life, let’s say. Let’s pretend we’re a SaaS, and maybe we’ve gone through some of those tips we’ve shared, and maybe we’ve gone for, I don’t know, some of the quick wins, like competitor alternative keywords and stuff like that. Early indications would be, we’ve published the page, let’s say 2-3 months later, the rankings have settled. We’ve seen an uptick. We’ve gone from nonexistent to maybe we’re top three organic. That’s a nice early indicator. We’re getting some click-through rates. We can see that we’re getting some click-throughs to the page. We’re getting some organic We’re going to the site to the page. Maybe we’re ramping up general session times on a website because we can see that people are coming through to this money page, and then they’re visiting other pages. Maybe they’re visiting the competitor alternative. Then they’re going through to the product page. Then they’re maybe checking out results. Maybe some of are clicking through further or going off our site onto the YouTube channel. That’s early signs of life. Then more those are leading indicators.

[00:36:08.620] – Sam Dunning

Then lagging indicators would be things like folks actually reaching out for a sales call or booking a trial or taking a free sign up or taking a demo or more lagging conversion points or taking a lead magnet or signing up to a webinar. Because ultimately that’s the end goal. And that’s why so much of what I talk about is traffic in SEO is vanity, because if you’re purely doing your funnel stuff, you might get tons of traffic, but so few of it will convert. Whereas if you take the opposite approach, people are much more likely to take that sign up, take that demo because they actually have the sales intent behind it. They’re not searching it for fun on Google or searching it to learn. They’re searching it because they actually need the offer. And as you probably know, as most people tuning into this know that B2B buying is rarely linear. It’s often, especially as you get higher ticket, as you get into selling software that’s 100,000, 200,000, to a thousand a year. It’s not quick purchase. There’s multiple execs involved. They’re probably going to make a short list of three, four, five pieces of software or vendors.

[00:37:10.740] – Sam Dunning

They’re going to discuss it internally. They’re not going to land on your website and suddenly book a demo and buy. They’re going to probably land on your website, link your website back into their Slack channel, discuss it, forget about it for a while, check out your podcast, forget about it for a while, check out your results, forget about it for a while, see your retargeting LinkedIn ad, forget about it for a while, then go back to your website and maybe book it down there. So SEO is a piece of the SaaS marketing puzzle.

[00:37:33.830] – Joran

To turn that around, what are the challenges SaaS companies will face while doing SEO? Because it sounds easy right now, but they’re going to run into challenges.

[00:37:43.120] – Sam Dunning

Especially if you’re a bigger organization, I think one of the biggest problems at larger scale corporations is not being able to publish at speed. Especially, it’s going to be painful for marketers if there’s a lot of opportunity in search. So you might face every time you search for your offer, compare yourself to alternatives or look for problems you solve and you’re just seeing the big giants ahead of you. Just being able to publish that content at a good speed is difficult because you need so much sign-off in bigger organizations. So if there’s any way that you can speed that up, whether getting those folks that need to be involved in the sign-off stage earlier, because at larger corporations, SEO is more about communication than actually doing the work. I mean, being able to do the work is a baseline. Being able to communicate with stakeholders is way more important, in my opinion, especially enterprise level. Whereas if you’re a scrappy startup, then your issue is probably not being… Well, it’s probably balancing plates between your marketing tasks or having the cash to outsource it to a contractor or agency. So it’s probably being able to actually give the SEO president some priority.

[00:38:48.190] – Sam Dunning

So if you think, yeah, there is a lot of market demand, there’s a lot of prospects searching for offer, we could get a decent hit from SEO, we could get some decent leads. But it’s being able to take a chunk out of each week and say, look, we’re going to prioritize this time to building this content because we know that in 90 days or so within publishing, we’ll be able to rank and get some decent traffic and potential leads from it. It’s either carving out time, resource, or being able to communicate clearly is some of the big issues.

[00:39:11.990] – Joran

Maybe one challenge or not, I’m going to learn about that in a second. Ai, I guess. It’s popping up everywhere. We now actually get traffic, for example, ChatGPT ourselves. You get results more instantly at search results. How do you see the future of SEO and probably especially with AI evolving?

[00:39:34.260] – Sam Dunning

A good point. At the moment, it depends on your ICP. So it depends on your dream client. Because on LinkedIn, everyone says ChatGPT or AI is going to wipe out SEO. Truth What you’re going to see is a lot of industries don’t even use AI that much to search. It depends on your buyer. If you’ve got a tech-savvy ICP, then yes, they’re going to use ChatGPT to search queries. If you’ve got a more traditional buyer, probably still going to Google or asking their peers or similar. So So that’s one thing to consider. But if you have more of a technical buyer, then they probably are using ChatGPT, they probably are using Search. The main difference is being that you haven’t got the traditional blue links that you do on Google where you have to trawl through the results. You click into pages, you’re getting the answers instantly It’s a bit more difficult. It’s almost more of a brand play within tools like ChatGPT because it gives the results straight away. But the links through to the site are quite small. All the citations are quite small. So it’s more like getting your brand mention rather than actually getting the click-through, if that makes sense.

[00:40:32.710] – Sam Dunning

And there is ways, like from what we’ve seen, it’s still early, but in tools like SearchGPT and similar, a lot of SEO best practices seem to ring true. So doing the stuff we talked about, writing your pages in a conversational manner, making sure they’re well-structured and easy to consume, embedding rich media, so that could be YouTube video embeds on the page topic or that stuff seems to work well. We’ve also been trialing on articles things like doing a intro and also doing a headline for why should you trust us? So people get a quick snapshot of the article and why you should be trustworthy. That seems to help getting ranked in AI overviews on Google as well as SearchGPT. Backlinks from niche relevant sites tend to have an impact and also brand mentions from other sites tend to help with that as well. A lot of SEO best practices seem to ring true at the moment when it comes to actually getting your site ranked on the AI tools.

[00:41:24.490] – Joran

In the end, they have to learn from somewhere, so they are going to basically scrape your site to get the information.

[00:41:29.790] – Sam Dunning

Yeah, it seems that way so far.

[00:41:31.630] – Joran

We’re going to close off the episode. I always ask these two questions at the end. You can take it more wider than an SEO, or you can stick to SEO however you would like to do so. When we talk about growing a B2B SaaS company, what advice would you give a SaaS founder who’s just starting out and growing to 10K monthly recurring revenue?

[00:41:50.260] – Sam Dunning

Good one. I don’t know if I would do SEO. I think you could probably, in this day and age, work off founder brand, LinkedIn founder brand. That’s A bit of a buzzword at the moment. What does that actually mean? That means I suppose I’m going in with a bit of a bias mindset because I’ve been on LinkedIn for a long time, and that generates a good chunk of business for us. So I’m going in for it. Let’s pretend you’re a founder and let’s pretend you’re, I don’t know, in connecting with your ICP, connecting with your dream clients each week. You’re posting useful content to your dream clients. You’re talking about the problems you solve. You’re talking about conversations you’re having. You’re answering common questions. You’re positioning your product as a solution. You’ve been case studies, you’ve been examples, you’re standing out, all that stuff. You’re engaging with prospects, you’re posting useful content. Maybe you’re having conversations with your ICP, you’re striking up convos in the DMs. I think that can get you to 10K. I think that’s quite smart. But if you’re brand new, and let’s say you’ve never done LinkedIn, you’ve never touched LinkedIn before, then you might be better off then in that case, building that in the background and then maybe scaling with either paid or SEO is going to take a bit longer compared to paid if there’s demand for your offer.

[00:43:03.680] – Joran

For people listening, we had Adam Robinson. I interviewed him live in Austin.

[00:43:07.490] – Sam Dunning

Found a pot like he has a really nice great episode.

[00:43:10.790] – Joran

I’m just the LinkedIn profile from Sam right now. He has 32,000 followers. It will take time to get there. But if you keep posting consistently, it will start growing over time. Don’t expect quick result here either.

[00:43:23.460] – Sam Dunning

There is another way. I suppose you could also go 10K from network. Let’s say, I’d imagine most founders have probably got some background in their product or their use case, leveraging existing connections. So whether that was past customers, past prospects, people that you’ve worked with in the past, past customers, past friends, connecting with those can get you a few thousand MRR, just striking up conversations, saying, Look, I’ve started up my own thing. Would you be open to having a chat? And then if they don’t know someone, they might be able to refer you to someone else. I think being proactive and making sure you’re having conversations, you’re prospecting daily as a founder is important, and that can get you a good few thousand MRR.

[00:44:04.120] – Joran

Yeah, nice. When you’re active on social like LinkedIn, it is going to help you to establish this relationship quicker and keep them warm. Let’s now assume we passed 10K MLOps, and we are going to make a huge step towards 10 million ARR. What advice would you give a SaaS founder here?

[00:44:23.130] – Sam Dunning

Building out systems at scale, really. Most of our clients do a big multi-channel approach. So they now understand the platforms that their ICP are on. They have a deep understanding of their dream client’s top three most painful, expensive problems, like the impact of those problems and how to position their product as the pain care as the solution. Their Probably not just working on demand capture channels. So they’re probably doing a mix of organic search SEO. They’ve marketed well to that bottom of funnel, mid-funnel and working on the top funnel. They’re probably doing paid media, so they’re probably doing Google paid search. If they’re a SaaS, they’re probably on paid review sites, be it G2, Captera, Trustera, whatever makes sense for your offer. Ideally, their execs are doing what we said at a personal brand level. So they’re all posting on LinkedIn, building awareness around their product, their offer, and their brand. Those motions will get you to a decent level in terms of MRR. But then it depends on the go-to-market, right? Whether they’re product-led, sales-led, marketing-led, and all that good stuff. I suppose I’ve got a bit of a different background because I run an agency of breaking B2B, so I’m not SaaS, but I work with a lot of SaaS marketers, a lot of SaaS founders.

[00:45:37.020] – Sam Dunning

And I probably have that strange mindset that outbound still works as well. So I’m often of the case, like start with a no brainer channels. So start with capturing that 5 % that’s searching for offer now with paid media, Google’s paid search, SEO, paid review sites, etc. Build up demand for your offer. So for those folks that aren’t necessarily market now, but maybe wanting to learn about your sector, educate themselves or entertain themselves. So maybe that involves starting a podcast around your industry where maybe you invite potential prospects or clients or industry veterans, a bit like this. Or maybe you do A couple of episodes so you can build trust around your industry and showcase expertise. And then that fuels the demand engine. And that content is then distributed to LinkedIn. So your ICP continues to consume that, goes out on YouTube, goes out on the audio podcast. Maybe your sales The team use that for enablement as well. And I still believe outbound sales works pretty well as well. So I’m a fan of things like cold email. I think cold calling can work if you do it in a strategic manner. You know who’s in contact, you know the right message, you know the right timing.

[00:46:44.510] – Sam Dunning

And the last thing is experiments. I run experiments myself. A lot of companies I work with run experiments. Quite often that’s a case of what could be a risk but might make sense to the channel to experiment with. Is it cold email? Is it LinkedIn ads? Is it doing a founder brand on LinkedIn? Is it Was it starting a podcast? Going in with a hypothesis that my adult client probably consumes this, probably will respond well to this, but I’m not 100 %. I’m going to give it a good test, be that two quarters, half a year, a year, depending on the typical run The great of the channel. And then giving it a good test, seeing how it goes, giving it a fair experiment. If it works, great, ramp it up. If it doesn’t, you’ve learned from it. It’s not the end of the world. Move on to the next test. We run experiments at my agency all the time. Different channels, different ideas. And I think it’s a good to see what works as well.

[00:47:32.620] – Joran

Nice. I like the time frame you mentioned. Like an experiment in SaaS is not just a couple of weeks. It is going to be a couple of months to figure out if it’s working or not.

[00:47:43.000] – Sam Dunning

Yeah, I think thinking in I thought this makes a bit more sense than weeks, although it’s easy to get in a short term trap, and I’m very guilty of it as a founder.

[00:47:51.530] – Joran

Let me try to summarize. When we talk about SEO, what is SEO non-paid search results? Why should you care, reduce reliance on The paid ads, people ignore the paid ads. Are you going to tap into the evergreen effect? Seo is not always the right move when you’re expecting quick results, when your industry is not well known, if you simply don’t have the resources. I even made a step then out of this, what you all mentioned. So the nine steps for success for SEO, leverage insights from sales goals, create an overview of those insights with the offer, good clients, main competitors, the jobs to be done, build out your money keywords, turn it into long tail keywords, don’t focus on the traffic trap, focusing purely on top of funnel contents. Quick wins here are focusing on the competitor alternatives and the bottom of funnel content. Create articles how to and low search volume is higher buyer intent. Then optimize your website, leverage client insights. Again, jobs to be done framework here as well. Publish at speed, bottom of funnel, don’t need topic clusters. The bigger the company, the bigger the challenge to publish at speed. Embed richer media in the articles.

[00:49:00.380] – Joran

Then do technical SEO, add keywords in the URL, metadata, age ones, add internal links. Mistake is wasting a lot of time on technical SEO, so don’t focus too much on it. Build backlinks, leverage the founder, so find backlinks which are going to the LinkedIn profile. Podcasting is a great way to build backlinks. Partnership play, find companies which are going after the same ICP. Eight, measure ROI, leading indicators, ranking, take-through rates, session times, lagging indicators, receiving information like demo, sign up webinar, and then run experiments. What could be a risk but would be worth to experiment? If you’re 10K MR, focus on founder brand, social media, LinkedIn, or leverage your network, 10 million ARR, Building system for skill, deep understanding of problems of ICP and doing multi-channel marketing.

[00:49:51.320] – Sam Dunning

Nailed it.

[00:49:52.280] – Joran

Nailed it. Better than AI, almost. If you want to get in contact with you, you’re really active on LinkedIn. Is that the best way to do so or are there any other better ways?

[00:50:02.060] – Sam Dunning

Yeah, I appreciate it. I mean, there’s three main ways. One is, like you said, LinkedIn, daily ramblings on B2B and SaaS SEO and tips and ideas and unusual case studies. The second is the podcast also called Breaking B2B So we do weekly interviews, either with a SaaS or B2B marketing leader. So they’re sharing their secrets to what’s actually driving growth. You can get actual tips. Or we do solo episodes on B2B marketing, SaaS marketing and SEO. Or the third way is if you’re maybe a SaaS marketer or founder that’s tired of seeing competitors above you in Google’s organic results, stealing traffic mind share and leads, we might be able to help. You can head to breakingb2b. Com to book a call.

[00:50:39.820] – Joran

We’re going to make sure we’re linked to the LinkedIn, to your podcast, and to the website with a keyword, I guess, because that’s what you mentioned, so we’re definitely going to do that. I would recommend checking Sam out on LinkedIn because he makes some funny videos asking the public on SEO or other things, him holding a bear and getting the most random answers from it. Definitely worth a listen. Check it out. Thanks, Sam, for coming on. For people listening, please leave us a review. We’re going to add a poll to this podcast as well. Happy to hear your thoughts. Thank you for watching this show of the Grow Your B2B SaaS podcast. You made it till the end, so I think we can assume you like this content. If you did, give us a thumbs up, subscribe to the channel. If you like this content, feel free to reach out if you want to sponsor the show, if you have a specific guest in mind, if you have a specific topic you want us to cover, reach out to me on LinkedIn. More than happy to take a look at it. If you want to know more about Reditus, feel free to reach out as well. But for now, have a great day and good luck growing your B2B SaaS.